Comments on: Mass Indifference

By: Hails

Hails — Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:35:51 +0000

I’ve been having an almost conversation with you for the last half hour! ;) I’ll go for it and add my two cents’ worth…
I think the culture issue is the main one, particularly in Ireland. I was raised Protestant, but in a family of atheists. One of my closest friends today is Catholic, and has had many of the same issues that you do with wanting to break away. Both of us are now believers/Christians/whatever label you want to stick to it, yet the cultures and experience of family traditions we have are massively different.
Religion is man-made and divisive, whether it’s the rituals of the Catholic church or the list of dos and don’ts of the Presbyterians. When all is said and done, I can’t see God standing there with a checklist, granting or refusing entry to heaven based on questions like “Did you go to church every week?”, “Was that 3 glasses of wine you had one night last March?”, “You smoked cigarettes, didn’t you?”, “Did you wear a hat during prayers?”, and a tiebreaking lifetime tally chart of how many Hail Marys have been said.
If God is love, which is what I believe, then he’s just going to ask “Do you know me?”. And that’s personal.

By: Thriftcriminal

Thriftcriminal — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:12:37 +0000

On your last response to Medbh: Freud did state that where the Irish are concerned psycho-analysis is of no use. This can, of course, be interpreted in many ways :-)

By: K8

K8 — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:03:05 +0000

Mary; It’s true that Church can have a powerful cleansing effect, just look at all the folks driving away from Mass, you’d swear they think they’re invicible!
It’s a good point you have about belonging to a culture. I’m starting to think that excluding my kids from that just because I feel I don’t belong, might be selfish.
I know now that it’s not up to me. I’ll start them in this faith, then let them make their own decisions later, much as my parents did.

Nonny; You’re dead right, finding a non-denominational school is tough, especially in rural areas. I shall have to go with the flow and remain an internal activist.

Con; Beautifully put.

Medbh; Despite our friendly reputation, us Irish are a very guarded folk generally. Unfortunately, sharing personal information in groups just doesn’t seem to work for us. That’s not to say that it won’t in the future though. I’d go too.

By: Medbh

Medbh — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 14:09:24 +0000

Our personal and familial rituals don’t have to include god. There are many community sponsored centres run by athiests in the U.S. where families get together and share stories and celebrations based on humanism and rationalism.
I hope they spread all over.
I’d go.

By: Con

Con — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:20:14 +0000

By: nonny

nonny — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:14:50 +0000

Since most of our schools are catholic it could be rather problematic for a little nipper. I suppose you if you were dead set against it you could send them to a non-denominational school. The Catholic Church have evolved so much and indeed done an enormous amount of good but they seem to just dig their heels in on such fundamental issues. If they were a little more liberal I’m sure support would increase dramatically. The only reservation I would have about not raising my kids with religion and its practices is not knowing the consequences for them. I was raised a Catholic and whilst I am a non believer-ish I don’t think I would have the same values without it. It is a hard one indeed.

By: Mary Witzl

Mary Witzl — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:29:25 +0000

I sympathize with you too. I believe more in what Christ taught and not so much in Christianity itself, if that makes any sense. Going to church comforts me, but I think both Catholics and Protestants have plenty of hypocrites among them. I know a fair number of people who feel that as church-goers, they somehow belong to a higher order. Most of them make no effort to be better human beings. I’d rather stop going to church altogether than end up that way.

My husband is pretty much agnostic, and we both rejected the idea of a church wedding, preferring to use the money to travel instead. We have never regretted this decision. Oddly enough, though his family is not at all religious, they go for church weddings and supported the idea of us having our children christened. I could not agree to this — it seemed hypocritical given the fact that my husband almost never goes to church and states that he does not believe in God — but obviously, the ritual, though it meant nothing to him and his family in terms of faith, did mean something to them in terms of culture.

By: K8

K8 — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:42:28 +0000

Baino! First Disciple you are so. I always thought Pentacostal sounds like a Greek holiday resort. Funny that.

Grannymar; I think I and Elly need a chat with God ;)

Deborah; I appreciate how lucky I am not to have very Catholic relatives (that I see regularly) who like to put pressure on conformity. My biggest worry here is that if I don’t Christen my children, will they feel very left out at Communion/Confirmation? It is, after all, turning into a bit of a fashion show…

Thriftcriminal; I can understand how a religion is the best way to enforce good behaviour, good conscience and human decency on a broad scale. Kids need that from a young age, and many adults use it as an emotional crutch. It makes brilliant sense! It just feels like it’s all been taken way too far.
There needs to be a seperate body who can assess a person and make referrals!

Mammo; We could do a mass bungee! How many people can they put on one rope?
What you sayin’ about my teeth? Are you startin’?!?

Kirk; That’s easy for you to say!!! Independent thought isn’t really encouraged over here, we have Bertie for that.
Good prayer, though… I’ll say it during the Angelus tomorrow.

Bad ambassador; Yes but I don’t like Chocolate Kimberlies. You will have to conform to Church of Yorkie if that’s the case, and if you don’t, may you be condemned to face the fires of hell for all eternity.
I was nervous about this whole starting a new religion thing at first, but then I remembered that if any old sci-fi writer can do it, then why can’t I?

Mass starts at 10am Monday morning and finishes at 6pm. We will start with some free love, then sugar worship. After break we will be rolling around naked in paint and imprinting ourselves on street furniture and stray cows. A rest period will follow for 2 hours, involving crossword puzzles, origami folding, and cocktails.
If your boss doesn’t like you dissapearing every Monday, threaten to sue because of religious intolerance. See you Monday – bring your wellies.

By: The Bad Ambassador

The Bad Ambassador — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:04:01 +0000

“Church of the Open Mind” works for me….or “Church of the Chocolate Kimberly”. I think people of the latter faith would enjoy receiving communion more than their open-minded brethern.

For as long as I can remember I have found it curious that if 100 people gather once a week, lead by somebody dressed in flowing robes to perform some ceremony and chant mindlessly they are called a cult – but when millions do it, its organised religion.

Lead on K8!

By: Kirk M

Kirk M — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 01:09:46 +0000

The church is not God. The church (any physical church) is a temple. What did God tell his people not to build unto him?

Believing in God and Jesus is one thing.

Knowing deep down that religion is all wrong is just common sense.

God made man. Man invented religion. Then man fought every war he ever fought because of it.

Not all religions involve a God.

It’s damn hard to unlearn those things you learned as a child.

To thine own self be true, Amen!